Saturday, September 06, 2008

A Writer Writes

Ben's back! With a great post in which he explains how "a double-handed wank-off might just be a path to greater effectiveness." Go read it.


Anonymous said...

Sorry this may constitute off topic but . . .

I mean really!

Lunar BBDO said...

Sorry. I didn't mean to write anymore. I just couldn't stop myself (how sad is that?). So I snuck a couple of posts on without telling anyone. And I might not do any more. Although I might.

Yes, I'm a hypocritical arsehole. No, I didn't stop just for the attention (I didn't think there'd be any).

I tried to work out why I wasn't into it as much and it was all the fucking comments (look what Scamp's been through lately). So they're staying off.

Have a nice weekend. xxx

George said...

Come on Ben. Bring it back.

Anonymous said...

Hi Lunar,
As regards the last line of your post, a really good account man once said it to me this way:
"It's just like giving medicine to children.
What they want isn’t what they need.
And what they need isn’t what they want.
Good creatives know what the client needs.
Good account men know what the client wants.
Great account men can get the client to want what they need."

Anonymous said...

"I'm a hypocritical arsehole".
I would add 'coward' to that sentence.

(and don't dare to dele my comment, Scamp I'm just quoting. He called himself that, I only added a non swearing word.)

Lunar BBDO said...

Yeah. I'm a coward.

And who the fuck are you?

Sell! Sell! said...

Glad you're back Ben.
Nice one.

Hope you find a way to bring comments back.

Anonymous said...

I am afraid of the comments.

Anonymous said...

i thought it was a great post... can someone (briefly) explain 'the tennis ball argument' to me...? not heard that one before. and welcome back lunar... you've been missed.

Anonymous said...

I was having one of my regular power walks through Regents Park a while back when from behind a tree a couple of giggling kids shouted 'BALDY!'

It didn't bother me. In fact it made me laugh. It was a funny delivery and they had a point because I am going a bit thin on top.

I had a similar experience a couple of posts ago when an anonymous person stated that work that I was associated with was shit (I wasn't actually the creative on it, it was those other no hopers Paul Silburn, Dave Dye, Malcolm Venville and Andy Dymock) and that I only took on the Creative Circle to award myself a gong.

The big difference between Anon and the kids was the bitter delivery and the lack of evidence to back up the claim.

Even so, I wasn't offended. I'd stuck my neck out and put my name next to a blatent bit of promotion for the Creative Circle. In fact I was relishing the prospect of a juicy debate.

But my intelligence WAS insulted when my anonymous friend said later 'Sorry Mark, It wasn't a targeted attack on you etc etc'.

Since when has 'your work's shit and you're corrupt' not qualified as a targeted attack?

Anyway, enough about me...........

I was prompted to write this by 'afraid of the comments' (are you the same pillock that I encountered or is there more than one of you out there?)

Do you really think Ben is a coward? I think it takes a lot of courage to write your thoughts and theories on advertising and put them out there to be picked apart.

It was Ben (and Daryls) example of putting their names next to their comments that inspired me to do the same.

It's obvious to see that Ben isn't troubled by people's opinions or comments, he's just sick and tired of having to deal with the twits.

Anonymous said...

it takes courage....and also a strong desire to PR yourself to the hilt.

Let's be real here.

Btw Mark - big fan of yours. So not the same anon as before.

Anonymous said...

It's lovely to think that I've got a fan. And I've got to agree with you, the desire to be recognised (or PR if you like) has to be stronger than the fear that goes with signing your name next to your comments.

To me PR IS advertising, and I've never had a problem with that. It always amazes me that people in our industry don't use it more. It's the reason that I pumped 000's into advertising Lucha Loco, and got all the additional coverage by shining a spotlight on it. I genuinely thought it would sell more books.

I've got some really talented mates in the industry who are happy to 'just do the work and the rewards will follow', but I'm worried for them.

Most of the young creatives that I grew up with in the 70's have been squeezed out of the industry. Nothing to do with talent, but more to do with leaving things to fate.

That's why admire Ben. I don't know him very well, but my guess is that he'll be staying in advertising as long as he chooses.

Anonymous said...

ah, but you always did the PR thing in an entertaining way and, crucially, with a sense of humour.

so not strictly about ego, but about fun and enthusiasm.

at the mo, too many people take themselves far too seriously....

maybe a reflection on the times. maybe not.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Dear fan,
I think you're right again!
If it's personal PR with nothing to back it up then you're in danger of shooting yourself in the foot if you take yourself too seriously.

....Dave?........what are you doing behind that tree?

Lunar BBDO said...

Mark, you're a gent.

A bald gent, but a gent.

Anonymous said...

I loved what you wrote.
I agree with every word.
But your imagery of little kids shouting 'baldy' from behind a tree was just too Beano to resist.

Anonymous said...

Sorry that wasn't meant to be anonymous. I pressed the wrong button.

Anonymous said...

Mark Baldy Denton wrote: If it's personal PR with nothing to back it up then you're in danger of shooting yourself in the foot if you take yourself too seriously.

Do you mean like that ex girlfriend of yours? The one who thinks the Iraq war is "naughty"

Anonymous said...

Sorry Mark, think you are a top guy but fail to understand your whole PR thing...

Lets say Ben/Scamp have increased their profile massively by having a blog. Who cares.

Will a top CD hire you because of your work... or because of your blog?

Every team out of college has a blog nowadays, it's a joke, spend some time on your book and get a blooming job...

PR is total bullshit unless you have the talent to back it up.

Those that do don't normally have to say anything.

Anonymous said...

What happened to my fan? I liked him.

.........anyway, I think it's all about visibility. What's the use of being good at anything if no one knows about it.

PR doesn't have to involve taking your kit off for a trade mag. It might be as simple as getting to know some journalists and sending them any good work you might have done rather than leaving it up to a forgetful account man or lack lustre PR dept.

When I published my first magazine I sent it everywhere, even to people like Marlon Brando. I loved the idea that he might see it and think what the fuck is this. In fact that's all the reaction I've ever hoped for.

I've met lots of really interesting people and been given loads of fantastic opportunities just by starting unlikely dialogues.

Although I only know one formula- Do something THEN wave it about. I don't know how to publicise nothing- that's a real art.

For what its worth, I was in New York recently and I happened to meet a couple of American journalists. Of course I had no reason to assume that they would of heard of me. But they had.

One of them quoted a comment I'd made on Lunars blog. It turned out that they were both avid readers and big fans of it.

That sort of stuff doesn't do you any harm.

Anonymous said...

Sorry I was alseap whilst these comments have been left.

But dito to what Ben said about you Mark (apart from the bald bit), I'd never be so cheeky as to pass a comment on that.

But you are a gent and a very generous one at that.

Anonymous said...

John Cleese said, "It's the goal of every Englishman to get to his grave unembarrassed."
What a waste of 80 years on the planet.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

dear mr D, sorry i've been away, i'm back to shout from behind a tree again.
i never said anything about you personally being a shit, just that giving yourself a load of awards for a book that has sold less than the bumper book of sodoku and only ever gets a thumbing when the free copies at post houses are left out, is a bit much.
what 'was' the point in the post? well, personally declaring that the creative circle was taking on the d&ad is cack. you're fostering an old school mates club. (not you personally, the creative circle) and it ain't nice. and as for anonymous posts? well, no one with a name next to themselves posts what they really think, they just suck up to each other, after all you've never met lunar but you 'really like the guy'. come on, there's a lot of brown noses round here. and if no one said anything, the six of you who post would continue to talk about how great you all are and how much you respect each other opinion, even though you've never met.

Anonymous said...

anon 10:38

Tennis ball argument.

If you throw one tennis ball at someone, they will hit it back. If you throw loads, they will miss them all.

Replace 'tennis ball' with 'advertising message' and 'hit it back' with 'remember'.

That's about it. Simple.

Anonymous said...

Dear anon (behind the tree),

You really do need a great big cuddle.

Anonymous said...

i'm going to use these posts as evidence of grooming.

Lunar BBDO said...

Mark and I have met on many occasions. I think he's right to say 'we don't know each other very well', though. I mean, how many people do you know really well?

I know you're going to see this as continued evidence of brown-nosing, but I don't see what Mark's done wrong. He though D&AD was going wrong and, unlike the rest of us, found a lateral way of doing something about it. He didn't judge or create the Luca Loco work, but it also won in D&AD and Campaign Press.

And I'd imagine the bumper book of sudoku sells quite well. The market for an ad awards book will always be small. I don't think Mark has awarded himself anything for it, though (and it was done by Paul Belford, so he STILL wouldn't be awarding himself).

We'd be happy to be nice about you, too. Just tell us who you are and we'll give it a go.


Anonymous said...

Of course ben's writing again. he's a proper writer. he can't help himself. peter souter once said to me i write the most beautiful tv scripts. he wasn't talking about amazing ideas (although sometimes he would also say that), he was talking about the craft that went into writing the actual script. i didn't care whether it was for homebase. i still enjoyed crafting it. blogs are just another outlet for writers, coz god knows there are very few clients wanting or appreciating it nowadays.
anything else.

Anonymous said...

i forgot to delete "anything else". it's not a question without a question mark.

Anonymous said...

can I enter your post into 'pseud's corner'....

think it might win