I love that quote; it's flattering to us ad types, isn't it?
But recently I've been wondering whether it has an unwanted flip-side.
But are we too much of a type? Are we failing to attract the "slow and self-obsessed" who could make a valuable contribution, but are put off by... something?
There's quite a lot going on in Banksy's quote, but I guess part of it is about people who think quick and shallow versus people who think deep and slow.
We mostly get the former. An advertising agency is a tyranny of quick-wittedness. Nearly all the people at the top are the quick-witted type. But do they sometimes get there at the expense of others who might be better than them, but just have a different personality?
I suspect Banksy is also making an observation about a personality difference that is horribly over-simplified, but which at least has the advantage of being well-known and easily understandable: introverts and extroverts.
Our industry prizes those who are energetic, articulate, confident, and sociable. And I'm not just talking about Account Handlers, but Creatives too. Especially if you're to reach CD level, you nowadays simply have to be energetic, articulate, confident etc.
I worry this is a problem. We might be discarding, or at least failing to properly promote, some fantastically talented Creatives just because they don't slap people on the back, or crack jokes.
And nowhere is the issue more acute - I'd guess - than in ad agencies.
So come on, introverts, let's hear from you. Anonymously, obviously. Do you find it difficult, being an introvert in advertising? Do you think extroverts have an unfair advantage? And do you ever take your headphones off?
34 comments:
Advertising is super-exciting.
I think I lost out on a recent CD position because I am more introverted and reserved than the person who got the job. I have better experience, more awards and a better book but they told me at the end of the day it just came down to personality. Maybe I am just a charmless twat but I think it came down to intro/extro.
I also have a terrible habit of letting people finish speaking before I talk, which means for long stretches of time it looks like I have nothing to say. In most meetings I attend, people hardly listen to each other because they are waiting to jump in to add a comment of very little value whenever the person speaking dares to breathe.
There is definitely a way to walk a line between both... and of my best CD's Ive worked with do this well... thankfully for intros, i think its easier to turn it up a notch than for extros to turn it down.
YES. Most agencies are horrible places for introverts. Probably wasn't as bad when creatives had their own offices (before my time) but the open-plan constantly-buzzing-banter-jokes-noise vibe of every agency I've been in is super energy-sapping. (Probably pisses many extroverts off too, but is especially tough for those who like to think in quiet, slowly, alone)...
Most creative introverts I have noticed work in technology as UX or product design / management.
I used to work at an agency but couldn't stand the noise, egos and how much everyone wants awards.
Tech is much more suited for introverted types who seem to have more of an engineering focus towards things.
I agree with you anonymous #2.
Sometimes it can be hard to get your point across with all the shouting across the table. I'm sure it's the same in other industries but it always seems like the fastest, loudest responses are listened to the most.
Thoughtful consideration is not valued as much as it should be.
An introvert creative from a large agency here- In my experience, extroverts go further. If you drink a lot and talk a lot, you'll do alright. Or if in meetings, you repeat what someone else has just said, only louder.
The hardest part is that we introverts reach a point in our careers where we will never rise any higher. And we must watch our louder, not necessarily cleverer, contemporaries get the titles and the pay rises.
I’ve seen with those who are louder, confident and project their energy…it’s assumed they’re creative geniuses for some reason.
But often, they’re quite garden variety, may have been a ‘passenger’ on an awarded campaign or idea.
But the front they project sucks a lot of people in.
An in an industry where you’re judged on ideas, and ideas are subjective – the loudest and most confident creative will make other people (who have no idea what’s going on or what creatives do) believe they’re superstars….
Having spent the past 12 years at ad agencies, this is a totally correct assessment of the situation. I sometimes wonder if another industry would value introverts more, but alas I think not.
I've found being an introvert to be a double-edged sword. I moved from pure development to a creative technologist role which requires a lot more face-to-face time with creatives, suits, planners and clients.
Sometimes it can be difficult to get your point across in a room full of big personalities when you are naturally quiet, but at the same time people tend to pay more attention to what you are saying because it's out of character, so it must be important.
I have really enjoyed working with extrovert creatives. They are able to take any useful ideas I have, simplify them, and deliver them with passion to clients, which is something I could never do convincingly. They're also incredibly fun to be around.
Over the past couple of years I have pushed myself out of my comfort zone by doing presentations and talks on tech to the company and clients. I put my hand up to go to meetings, and jump on conference calls. Something I would've never agreed to when I was younger.
I feel like pushing myself into doing things that make me uncomfortable is the only way my career will advance to a management/executive level.
Adland is filled with people who can't throw a good punch in a proper fight. But they do really well in the pre-fight shenanigans.
Ultimately it boils down to leadership. If an extro twat is at the helm, extro twats down the line will do well.
An advice to intros, you'll need to sell your idea and yourself. It doesn't matter if you're deep down an intro, selling is part and parcel of the business. Speak when you've to. And do it with conviction.
'...bright, creative and ambitious" It's obvious that Banksy hasn't been through Sydney creative departments lately.. ambition I see in bucket loads, the other two attributes are not so evident
In an industry divided by extroverts (talkers) and Introverts (doers), give me doers any day.
I agree that there has been a shift to the extrovert end of the spectrum in the industry, which is why (as a card-carrying introvert) I got out of agencies and now work freelance. Wherever possible, I now work directly with clients who, it seems, are a little tired of the overly-slick, in-your-face-ness of the agencies they deal with.
I’d say it’s a bit of a shame if, generally, you have to be a certain age, personality type etc to ‘fit in’. Diversity can only enhance creativity, surely.
I was lucky, during my formative years, to work in environments where introverts were valued. This largely comes down to CDs who appreciate that extroverts and introverts both bring something to a creative department.
Likewise, good CDs can be introverts or extroverts; the important thing is that they embrace both sides of the coin in their teams.
Agreeing with a lot of stuff in this thread. Especially Anon @ 4:03, Bitterovert and Just as bad in Melbourne. I can relate to all this stuff, it's happened at every agency I've been in. I think it's doubly hard, working in a creative team with an extro. People somehow think they're the smart ones – no, they just talk shit, talk it often and talk it loudly.
I could change I guess, speak for the sake of speaking in meetings, use a few marketing words, promote myself better, dress like a snazzy CD, credit myself with some work that I had little to do with.
But I refuse to play that game – at the end of the day I like this industry because I can be and act like who I am. If I change that to get ahead, then I may as well go into finance or some other shit that probably pays better anyway. I'd rather get ahead based on my merits, even if it takes a little bit longer. At least then I won't be a massive wanker.
i'm an introvert creative. i lasted 4 years in adland (realising creative positions were really the domain of extroverts) before taking a cushy, overpaid, non-stress corporate job, and becoming a self obsessed artist on the side. Much better.
Advertising is horribly, hopelessly skewed towards serving extroverts over introverts, and it has been for the last 20 years of my career. That's across all roles, in all departments.
If you can't at least fake being an extrovert then forget about career progression. In my experience its the introverts out the door first whenever an account is lost... and again, that's across all sectors.
It's got nothing to do with talent, it's got nothing to do with work-quality - it's pretty much universal.
The head and owner of the first agency I ever worked at was an old family friend - and a very quiet, humble, kind and introspective man in our family's experience (...and we knew him intimately for over 40 years).
What's amazing is that in Agency-land he was almost the polar opposite: an outgoing, gregarious laugh-a-minute extrovert who's loud, jaunty, bellowing laughter would ring out around the agency. Even now - 10 years after his death, he is still thought of in that manner by almost everyone in the industry.
I often found myself wondering which was the real side of this particular individual: the private, articulate, softly-spoken, warm and introspective man we knew... or the happy, funny, life's-a-riot, razzle-dazzle extrovert he was around agency types?
For what it's worth, my own theory is that he naturally had both tendencies as central parts of his personality - but he was only free to show his extroverted side around those who knew him well outside of Advertising. While still entrenched in agency-land, he no-doubt knew that his career and his agency would take a massive hit if he was totally true to his quiet introspective side.
I'm naturally an introvert myself, but like that family friend of mine, I have to hide the fact from everyone to stay employed. I really love my job... but I utterly loath my industry and its insistence on promoting flashy style over under-stated substance. Introspective deep-thinking individuals like myself have to don a skin-deep cloak of extroverted frivolity in order to keep our pay check and its sickening. Much like a lot of the advertisements we churn out, our industry is big on exaggerated benefits and flashy, shiny surfaces, with only very little lasting substance underneath its eggshell-thin facade.
I agree with you 100% Scamp - but don't talk to us about it - take it up with agency management. Otherwise, this is all just more pointless opinionated, industry noise on our part, correct?
Advertising is horribly, hopelessly skewed towards serving extroverts over introverts, and it has been for the last 20 years of my career. That's across all roles, in all departments.
If you can't at least fake being an extrovert then forget about career progression. In my experience its the introverts out the door first whenever an account is lost... and again, that's across all sectors.
It's got nothing to do with talent, it's got nothing to do with work-quality - it's pretty much universal.
The head and owner of the first agency I ever worked at was an old family friend - and a very quiet, humble, kind and introspective man in our family's experience (...and we knew him intimately for over 40 years).
What's amazing is that in Agency-land he was almost the polar opposite: an outgoing, gregarious laugh-a-minute extrovert who's loud, jaunty, bellowing laughter would ring out around the agency. Even now - 10 years after his death, he is still thought of in that manner by almost everyone in the industry.
I often found myself wondering which was the real side of this particular individual: the private, articulate, softly-spoken, warm and introspective man we knew... or the happy, funny, life's-a-riot, razzle-dazzle extrovert he was around agency types?
For what it's worth, my own theory is that he naturally had both tendencies as central parts of his personality - but he was only free to show his introverted side around those who knew him well outside of Advertising. While still entrenched in agency-land, he no-doubt knew that his career and his agency would take a massive hit if he was totally true to his quiet introspective side.
I'm naturally an introvert myself, but like that family friend of mine, I have to hide the fact from everyone to stay employed. I really love my job... but I utterly loath my industry and its insistence on promoting flashy style over under-stated substance. Introspective deep-thinking individuals like myself have to don a skin-deep cloak of extroverted frivolity in order to keep our pay check and its sickening. Much like a lot of the advertisements we churn out, our industry is big on exaggerated benefits and flashy, shiny surfaces, with only very little lasting substance underneath its eggshell-thin facade.
I agree with you 100% Scamp - but don't talk to us about it - take it up with agency management. Otherwise, this is all just more pointless opinionated, industry noise on our part, correct?
Introvert here. I've learned to fake being an extrovert. Approach every new face, walk up to people and have a two minute chat every other day. Stand out by wearing a hat/funny glasses/beard/weird tattoo. Everyone will instantly recognise you from a mile away. Booze helps too, especially when you're not the one paying for it.
Introvert doesn't necessarily mean intelligence. And intelligence doesn't necessarily make a creative great. The best ideas are very simple, sometimes dumb.
Extrovert or introvert, I've found the best thing on the surface is to be different and underneath, think different. In a department full of bitchy, 'introverted' film nerds? Be the 'extroverted' footy guy and get your inspiration from trash bag reality TV shows. In a department full of back slapping used car salesmen that think Greek wrestling each other is a sign of heterosexual affection? Be the introverted, but nice guy who waits his turn to speak.
One thing is guaranteed, if your offering and ideas are the same as everyone else but your only differentiation is you're slightly more socially awkward, you're going nowhere fast.
Good article and I thikn it's spot on. Being intorverted likely means that you have a mind that's just as imaginative as an extrovert - sometimes even moreso than the extrovert. People make assumptions about introverts that are fundamentally wrong, and that's had an impact on my career.
I have read Quiet and passed it on to two of my Directors so that they better undersnta me and I think that it had a positive influence of how they treat me.
I don't work in an ad agency. And I'm neither intro nor extro, I'm different things in different situations. Like most people I imagine?
But I do wonder why ad agency creatives (traditionally) work in pairs (copy and art) their entire career.
Until a CD position beckons.
Why at that point is it suddenly better to have only one point of view on developing and judging the quality of creative and not the team approach used up til then?
I'm an introvert and have been working in different agencies as a strategist / planner. In the beginning I loved how as a planner, I did not have to be all that extrovert. I loved digging deep into things and coming up with the right insights and passing these over to the creative people. It took me some time but usually after a while the creatives start valuing your input and when you hit that point as an introvert you feel safer to speak your mind faster instead of just keeping your ideas to yourself during a review or meeting.
I do however hate some planners who are all about sweet talking account people and clients too, funny how creatives usually hate these kind of planners.
But I agree that advertising is quite hard for introverts in between all the noise, ego's and loudness. You work harder to prove yourself and it even then it often goes unnoticed because your extroverted colleague has pitched a vague and not-well overthought strategy by then.
For me the hardest part is, as an introvert I get my energy out of being alone for some time, while extroverts get their energy out of being around people. At night, sometimes I'm exhausted if I had a day with too many meetings.
On the other hand, the best thing that happened to me was to start as a junior strategist in an agency and learning to cope with myself as an introvert. I've learned a lot from making myself pick up the phone to speaking my mind in meetings, which would never have done a couple of years ago. I believe that being an introvert as a planner is an advantage because you overthink things more, but you definitely need to become more extroverted as you grow within an agency and have more power (and more meetings).
Are we too much of a type?
And agency where I worked had 150+ staff. 90% of them fell into three astrological groups. You can bullshit on all that star-sign mubo-jumbo if you like. But it was bizarre how 'alike' the agency staff were. And yes - all three 'signs' are known for 'extrovert' characteristics...
Same applies for marketers, I work as CMO and one of my BMs is super introvert. He has good background and etc, however sometimes i think he is useless as he hasn't got capability to fight thru his ideas (
Yes this is true.
Start your own agency.
Brilliant post.
As one who tends to shuffle mostly between the extremes of the two popular personality types, I sometimes wonder if it isn’t too simplistic to recommend a reactionary posturing for introverts against the motions of the external world. It feels somewhat defeatist and assume a victim stance, as opposed to championing a flexibility that combines the uniqueness of introversion with survival techniques in situations that are tedious for most introverts.
The creative environment, of course, is challenging for introverts. It applauds the charming and vocal employee and, whether it admits or not, treats the reclusive employee like an alien. Even if he’s a genius, he’s still accorded an outlaw status, treated sometimes despicably and left to breathe in alien waters stirred by extroverted motions. One can only imagine the internal battles introverts endure in creative agencies.
I believe the best corporate culture should make room – quite literally, for both introverts and extroverts. Because as soon as introverts “win”, it will be extroverts' turn to form a movement against the status quo, and gosh forbids - an exclusive movement of extroverts, by extroverts and for extroverts will be one heck of a movement.
Instead of a conclusion that frames the situation in an us-versus-them context, what should be campaigned for is a complimentary context that acknowledges differences and ensures reasonable compatibility for a common goal. For me, there are situations where I need to withdraw into my hermitic shell to work best and there are situations that require I work with people, even if for diplomatic reasons. :)
Thanks for this post, Scamp.
Being an introvert in an ad agency is horrendous. And yes the industry is "failing to properly promote, some fantastically talented Creatives just because they don't slap people on the back, or crack jokes".
However, if the stereotypes are true, introverts think deeply. And it's this thinking that makes introverts unsuitable for working in ad agencies. Advertising is about unthinking, shiny, surface appearance. Lots of noise, and doing stuff, for the sake of doing stuff, and profit.
So, really, anybody who thinks deeply is unsuited to ad agencies. Introvert, or extrovert.
I have been turned down for roles at both Facebook and Google because I'm "too calm" and "low energy" as a person.
Sad really, that they both acknowledged that they couldn't fault my experience or responses during the interviews.
Obviously I'm biased, but I think hiring one personality type is definitely a hinderence - as usually my temperament is viewed as an attribute by colleagues and clients alike.
Introverted would be a welcome change. I deal with Creatives on a daily basis who are all extroverted. The are the most pompous, overpaid bags of pathetic gas. They are the ones that walk in late, demand food, mess around on Facebook during sessions, say that masseuses should come in every few days to ease their "stress"', lie to their bosses about who screwed up, stall projects so they don't have to go back to the office, don't pay attention to edits/proofs until it's posting times, etc, etc, etc. Making the creative happy all the time has destroyed their drive to do better and stay on top. Stay introverted! Focus on the real job! Not the job that you want to project in front of everyone to feel powerful/important. YOU are the real ones that are out to make a great ad. Not the ones that are just trying to get that new 2016 Mercedes.
I heard a great definition of an introvert once by an introvert. 'An introvert is someone who would rather stay at home and read a book by themselves than go to a party. I'd rather say at home and read a bad book that I'd read before. This guy was very wealth by the way.
I think some of the industries penchant for extroverts fits in with their similar penchant for style over substance.
Thanks for this post. I'm just starting out as a Creative in advertising, from previously working as a UX/UI designer in a software company. The extroverted energy in advertising is overwhelming. Everyone speaking over each other, jokes, beers and generally just a lot of noise.
I had wanted so much to get into advertising because of the creative work, now I'm already I am wondering whether I will last in this industry. But I've already made the leap and it would be a shame to give up. Glad to read the comments and see other introverts out there.
What in the fuck is a CD in marketing? Why in the fuck does everyone today have to speak in acronyms?
Hi sndo. CD = Creative Director. I know acronyms can sometimes appear unfriendly, but when they are in wide use for a common term among industry participants chatting amongst themselves, it's just a time-saver really.
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